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Thread: Microsoft and OpenGL

  1. #1
    Senior Member OpenGL Guru
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    Microsoft and OpenGL

    From the MSDN-Library:

    "OpenGL requires Microsoft Windows NT, Windows 2000, or Windows 95/98. For more information on which operating systems are required for a particular function, see the Requirements section of the documentation for the function."

    I always thought GL would also run under Linux and Unix. God bless the MSDN-Library, now I finally know the truth about it. And in the MSDN of Visual Studio 8 they reveal to us that MS has invented OpenGL!

    Jan.
    GLIM - Immediate Mode Emulation for GL3

  2. #2
    Senior Member OpenGL Guru
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    Re: Microsoft and OpenGL

    God don't get me started on Micro$oft....


    But they do now for the most part own openGL IP....




    Originally posted by Jan2000:
    From the MSDN-Library:

    "OpenGL requires Microsoft Windows NT, Windows 2000, or Windows 95/98. For more information on which operating systems are required for a particular function, see the Requirements section of the documentation for the function."

    I always thought GL would also run under Linux and Unix. God bless the MSDN-Library, now I finally know the truth about it. And in the MSDN of Visual Studio 8 they reveal to us that MS has invented OpenGL!

    Jan.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Regular Contributor
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    Re: Microsoft and OpenGL

    Hoew could they own an open source software?? isnt OGL open source??
    And doesnt the ARB kinda control what happens to OpenGL, of which M$ is only one member, with lots and lots of other powerful members like SGI and NVIDIA
    :: Sleep is a poor substitute for caffeine ::

  4. #4
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    Re: Microsoft and OpenGL

    Microsoft is claiming control over some key patents related to OpenGL. I'm not sure of all the details but from what I've heard they've really got OpenGL ARB over a barrell. Of course with EVERY other major OS AND the nintendo gamecube supporting OpenGL you can understand why they are scared. If Direct3d gets dethroned as the prominent gaming API then it'll make it alot easier for most developers to bring games to other platforms.

  5. #5
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    Re: Microsoft and OpenGL

    Micro$oft a some time back bought some of the IP patents from SGI for 3D rendering.
    Micro$oft said they needed it for their x-box, but I think they wanted to gain control of there only competing graphics API.
    Thus is Linux became a big problem, they could shut down opengl for linux. What would linux be without a 3D graphics API.

    But you must remember that even though opengl is open source the parts of the rendering IP is now owned by Micro$oft, they could demand that the parts of opengl that uses the IP they own be taken out. Imagine opengl having to remove the important rendering functions.

    Originally posted by MrShoe:
    Hoew could they own an open source software?? isnt OGL open source??
    And doesnt the ARB kinda control what happens to OpenGL, of which M$ is only one member, with lots and lots of other powerful members like SGI and NVIDIA

  6. #6
    Citizen Thomas
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    Re: Microsoft and OpenGL

    "OpenGL requires Microsoft Windows NT, Windows 2000, or Windows 95/98. For more information on which operating systems are required for a particular function, see the Requirements section of the documentation for the function."

    When reading the MSDN documentation, it's implied that only MS operating systems are being discussed. So when it says that you need Win 9x/NT/2K to run OpenGL, it means that Win 3x/CE don't support OpenGL, but it's not implying anything about non-MS operating systems such as Linux. There's no foul play here.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Regular Contributor
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    Re: Microsoft and OpenGL

    I don't think OpenGL *is* open source; it is open standard however (a subtle difference). M$ I believe are acting in good faith. They are duty bound to reveal IP issues to other ARB members (of course).

  8. #8
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    Re: Microsoft and OpenGL

    "OpenGL is Open Source" does not have much signification. Because OpenGL is not a piece of code. The OpenGL implementations are, though. Most OpenGL implementations are not opensource, but MESA (By Brian Paul, I think) is opensource.

  9. #9
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    Re: Microsoft and OpenGL

    About MSDN : as I have recently understood, and pointed out on this bboard, there are many "errors" in MSDN about OpenGL. For example, if you look in the documentation for glInterleavedArrays, you'll see that it can't be compiled within a display list. That's obviously false (as says the SuperBible) and anyway I've tested it by myself.

    One might say that it is just a local error, but no, if you look it other parts of the MSDN collection (eg, I think, the help for glDrawElements), you'll always see the same nonsense.

    Then one might think, the guys from microsoft didn't know that vertex arrays were compatible with display lists. Once again, that can't be the case. Because the OpenGL implementation which I use (and which is most commonly used) for Windows98 is by microsoft. So they have written that code. So they can't ignore how it works.

    That's why I think that microsoft makes conscious errors in the MSDN collection. One might ask why ? Don't know. Probably to make Direct3D look more attractive (I think D3D hasn't display lists, so dlists would be a special openGL feature, so they'd like to make it look crappy...)

    Morglum

  10. #10
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    Re: Microsoft and OpenGL

    I am not sure what version of MSDN you are referring to but the Jan. 2001 version I have says this about glDrawElements and display lists...

    You can include the glDrawElements function in display lists. When glDrawElements is included in a display list, the necessary array data (determined by the array pointers and enables) is also entered into the display list. Because the array pointers and enables are client-side state variables, their values affect display lists when the lists are created, not when the lists are executed.
    And this about glInterleavedArrays...

    If you call glInterleavedArrays while compiling a display list, it is not compiled into the list but is executed immediately.
    Both of which are essentially correct so far as I know. glInterleavedArrays just sets the pointers. It doesn't draw anything, it is effectively executed immediately as that is a "client-side" thing.

    And as it says for glDrawElements, the elements are compiled into the display list as the array data exists at the time the list is compiled. If you try and change the array, and execute your list again, those changes don't take effect.
    Deiussum
    Software Engineer and OpenGL enthusiast

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